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RRM3 controls point -X forward, rather than +Z

Hello, I'm noticing an odd discrepancy between the RRM2 rig and RRM3. Here is a comparison image:

As you can see, the Controls on the RRM2 rig face Z forward, moving it forward results in a positive Z transform. This is also true of objects you create in Maya (cube, sphere, etc)

With RRM3, the Ctrl is facing -X, moving it forward results in a negative X transform.

I'm wondering if there is a reason for this change in orientation on the RRM3 controls? Can it be changed back?

It can create challenges when trying to move objects together and their orientations don't match.

Thank you

10 comments

Comments (10)

dustin

May 22

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As previously mentioned, I have added Maya Space controls to the rig. These behave different from the rest of the rig, so I only recommend using these if you need to have them match the behavior of other rigs or nodes set up to Maya's space. You can read more about the new additions here: https://www.rapidrig.com/post/rapid-rig-modular-3-new-axes-controls

devonc

May 24

Replying to

Amazing, I can't wait to try it out. Thank you for adding in this option!

devonc

May 28

Replying to

Hello, I just installed BETA_2024_05_22 but I don't see the Maya Space control options. Is there something special I have to do to make them appear in the rig?

dustin

May 29

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Replying to

Sorry about that. I have an update rrm3_installers_BETA_2024_05_28 which should show the controls properly.

dustin

May 05

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This topic comes up quite often so I made a blog post about it here: https://www.rapidrig.com/post/rapid-rig-modular-2-vs-3-axes

dustin

May 10

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Replying to

I highly advise against animating directly on geometry. I would recommend one of three options:

have an additional RRM3 rig for the chair
add an auxiliary control in your RRM3 rig for the chair
create your own control and group, match the group to the main control of the RRM3 rig and constrain your chair to that control

Saveremreve

May 12

Replying to

I don't think the suggestion is a desire to animate on raw mesh, the challenge here is that Rapid Rig has created a requirement that all objects have to be rigged with rapid rig in order for their movement to align in the graph.

The challenge for games in particular is the creation of cognitive dissonance for facing direction. The character would be moving forward from it's neutral zero'd out position, but instead of increasing Z values, you get decreasing X values. The root control not being in World Space is irregular. The majority of rigged objects will have the Root control align with the world.

Even if users made their own simple curve based control rig, it would actually take some effort to break the basic node behavior to match the Rapid Rig alignment.

I definitely see the value of the advanced mirroring controls, but what I'd expect is for that behavior to be mediated by a group below the root that retains the non-standard orientation, but allows the controls to behave in the advanced way with object space.

The other challenge is that root motion alignment is a persistent issue that is continuously needed by our animation team. We generally avoid overly symmetrical poses for composition, and while there's moments where it saves time in blocking we move away from that state quickly. On the other hand, refining and aligning root movement is an ongoing process.

I'm curious, are you suggesting the intention is to require RapidRig roots for all object positions in the scene if you need space alignment?

Edited

dustin

May 14

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Replying to

I will look into adding an extra layer of controls for Maya's world space for controls like the IK legs and arms as well as the main control and root control. These controls would have very different orientations and behaviour from the other controls though and there will still be the classic issues with controls like the hands that are typically in A-pose and will not move 1:1 in the direction of the root/pelvis if the animation curves are identical.

That being said, animations like strafing/turning/angled walks/walking backwards is all non-Z directional animation for the root/pelvis and anything else animated in IK. And other IK controls like the hands as mentioned above are rarely world oriented, so not having the blue line go diagonally to the right and up for only a couple controls in the graph editor seems like a fair trade-off for the gains in functionality.

I have been animating creatures of the air and sea that do move more symmetrically and without having mirrored behavior on IK and the faces, it would be much more of a challenge. Something as simple as a smile also becomes much more cumbersome without mirrored translation and rotation. I am finding it much easier to block out symmetrical poses and animations and then simply add some offsets in the positions and timing in the polish stages. Being able to translate and rotate FK chains without counter animating translation has also been a major boost in my productivity, especially for things like tentacles, antennae, pistons, etc. Having the entire rig follow this paradigm is less of a cognitive dissonance when everything is consistent and predictable once you get used to the change in orientation. Or maybe that's just me :) It also makes the logic of mirroring poses and animation much more intuitive, which, selfishly as a rigger, has made it much easier to implement a lot of new features without having to deal with a lot of edge cases in the code that arose in the classic control mirroring.

In an ideal scene, all moving things would be set up with Rapid Rig, but I understand that that is not always possible. If animating non-RRM3 rigs in the same scene as a RRM3 rig or using additional nodes to attach to or lock down RRM3 controls, I can certainly understand how those situations could become more of a challenge, which is why I'll see what I can do about adding some Maya's scene space controls as an extra layer of control.